The Trial of Bastila Shan
The Trial of Bastila Shan
1.1 Ghosts
I thought I should have felt something. Anger, shame, guilt, resignation. Something. Instead, I felt like I was drowning just under the surface of the water, suffocated under overwhelming pressure only a handbreadth away from air. I almost regretted not taking the offer Zaalbar made. The Wookies would have sheltered me, made me safe from the consequences of my acts. But I could not run. I could hear the voices of all the dead, all the men and women I had condemned with my actions. My petty jealousy, my pride, my lust for power and glory cost them everything. They whispered in my ear every waking hour, and the shades that remained of them visited me in every dream.
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1.2 Honor
Canderous allowed himself a moment to look at the young Jedi Padawan he had been asked to defend before the Senate Subcommittee on War Crimes. Bastila Shan, 19 years old, accepted into the Jedi order at age six, promoted to Padawan at age 16 and made Republic Fleet liaison with brevet rank of Captain. Twice decorated for bravery, thrice hailed as a Hero of the Republic. Now she was on trial for Treason. And a Mandalorian would be her counsel. Canderous had long since concluded that Jedi Mumble Jumbo about the force moving in mysterious ways was so much bantha poodoo. The blasted thing must have a taste for irony. "The things I do for you, Revan," he chuckled to himself, half irate and half amused.
He walked to the place reserved for him as advocate, slowly, unhurried, head raised high and proud. His honor was unblemished, and he would give deference to none of these Republican Senators. It was all he could do not to sneer. Most were inept if not outright incompetent, and half were so corrupt that they made Hutt crime lords look honest by comparison. The other half could be counted on to keep a deal only under threat or promise of reward. But all depended on image, their public faces which they showed to the people. And those facades required the appearance of honor, loyalty, dedication, charity, and devotion. So while Canderous knew that he could not sway them with reason or honor or emotion, he could force their hands by the lever of public opinion. The decadent Republic even had a term for the game of pretenses: Spin Doctoring. So be it. He would not even have to lie, only present a face of the truth that the Republic so often ignored. He would remind them what duty and honor really were, and let them wallow in their shame.
Bastila warred between relief and shock as she watched Canderous step forward as her advocate. She knew her friends had plotted means, first to see her to refuge, and when she refused, to make her defense. Part of her was all too glad to see that they had, in some way, managed to come through. The other half wondered what sort of half-baked, insane, do-or-die plan they had come up with this time, that they would send Canderous. She prayed that this scheme didn’t involve explosives.
Canderous forced himself to smile at the girl, no, woman-she had been blooded in a trial that few could hope to pass, and deserved that much respect. Taking his seat next to her, he leaned over to whisper. "Hey, Jedi Princess. You sure you want to go through with this trial thing? Just say the word and we'll have you out of here."
"I'm quiet certain thank you." He could hear her teeth grinding. "Tell me you're not going to challenge a Senator to a death-duel on my behalf. I don't think that'll help my case any."
His smile was genuine now. Seemed the girl still had some fire in her. Good. So long as she kept fighting, they'd win this, just like they had won every other battle. "As much as I would love to, Sana rather insisted I do it the Republic way. Don't look at me like that; She's a genius strategist remember? I'm just playing my part in her grand strategy. She knows this battlefield as well as any of the amateurs arrayed against us. Watch, we'll win this one too."
Revan's name worked it's magic. Bastila's slumping posture disappeared, and her poise became that with which he was so much more familiar, straight and unbowed. Squaring her shoulders, she settled over the desk as though it were the tactical plot they had so often labored over on the Ebon Hawk. Canderous stared for a moment, as she took a deep breath, entranced by the warrior woman who had re-emerged. "Let's do this."
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1.3 Duty
The Prosecutor was rambling on about duty, and the just deserts of treason. Canderous couldn't help but roll his eyes. Duty. Carth had fought half his life for the sake of that concept, and lost almost everything. And what reward did he gain for his devotion? The Republic had offered him nothing beyond more hopeless missions and broken commands. At least Sana had sense enough to want nothing further to do with Republic, formally at least, and taken Carth with her when she disappeared off of the proverbial sensor net. But Bastila, proud noble-minded Bastila was determined to pay penance for her crimes. Fool girl. There was no justice to be had here, only weak willed men now furious that they had been so frightened, so easily cowed, so easily deprived of their prestige and power, and casting the blame where there could. If Bastila wanted to atone for her folly with the clean embrace of death, Canderous could not gainsay her, but she would get no relief from this trial. People who no longer had to be afraid were now in an uproar of fury, hoping, it seemed to cover their shame. The Jedi were right about that much. Fear leads to Anger.
They still had a semblance of shame, most of them at least. Their breed were scavengers, unwilling to hunt prey, but crowding in hungrily when they sensed a kill, jockeying for their own piece of the prize. Like scavengers, they were fearful, always looking over their shoulders. They could commit a hundred little hypocrisies while they thought no one saw, but in the public light they had shame. Canderous would fix that light upon them, and let them wilt in that shame. The long-winded prosecutor was finally winding down, and Canderous rose to speak.
Sana had coached him in speaking -not that he wasn't a capable orator; a general needed to know how to inspire his troops. But Revan knew the importance of rhetoric, of appealing to emotion and reason in synergy, to sway not so much the Senate as the media, and insisted that Canderous learn the formal terminology, and plan his speech in detail, like a long campaign. The first step was Ethos, establishment of one's own identity and character, one's reputation and deeds, to provide the context for one's words. This Canderous relished, like any good Mandalorian. Boasting of his deeds and his clan's honor was familiar to him. He would use no niceties, no salutations; he was a blunt Mandalorian, frank and uncaring of Republican sensibilities, and he would show it.
"Since you have seen fit to convene this War Crimes Trial, I came to speak for my friend as a General, a warrior, as is no doubt proper for such a tribunal. I know that there is some prejudice against my people, even in this august Senate, but even you mush admit we were supreme in war. My people were born to the blade and blaster, and there is nothing of military strategy or organization we have not studied. Therefore, as a General speaking to laymen, I speak as an expert to the uninitiated. Heed me, and I will teach you about war and it's consequence."
Murmurs arose. It was the sound of confusion amidst his foes, and Canderous found it sweet to his ears. He continued.
"You have heard perhaps, that Mandalorian youths are sent into combat young, sometimes not even out of puberty. What you have not heard, nor seen, is how we prepared them. I was trained from the time I could walk, taught to control my every movement, so that I would waste not a single twitch in combat. I was warned of the terror that the battlefield brings, yes even to us bloodthirsty-" a sneer, here, "Mandalorians. Have any of you, Senators-" open contempt now, " been on the firing line? Have you felt the terror that grips you when you face incoming fire, or thrown up when you realized you've killed? Let me tell you there is not a soldier who has truly fought in war who has not been sick out of fear or disquiet. There are few sentients who do not become sick when they realize they have killed a fellow sentient. And into this maelstrom, you throw children, ignorant, untrained, unready, innocent. We Mandalorians bring our youth to battle, yes, but they are prepared, trained, and above all supported by their elders. We guide them as they learn to fight, and comfort them after they taste the sickness of death. Can you say you have done the like, leaders of the Republic? When my clan fought your troops we fought men and women who were but children in war, unschooled and frightened. If my clan has taken so little care of it’s people, it would have long since ceased to be, and rightly so."
A pause to let the accusation set in. The accusers had become the accused, the hunters the hunted.
"You have, perhaps, wise Senators, heard the Jedi creed? Let me refresh your memory. It starts thus: There is no passion, there is peace. Jedi need to remain calm to uphold the light, keep serenity to maintain their control, find peace to resist the darkness. Even you must know this. And yet you sent this girl, this not-even-a-Padawan, into that storm of passion, of fear, of sickness and death. You can call it military necessity, but if so, then you used her, made her your tool. Who then, is responsible, the sword, or its wielder? She was not even fully trained as a Jedi, but you needed her gift, so you declared her a Padawan, made her a Captain and sent her out to suffer the ravages of war. And now your tool is broken, because you pushed her harder and further than any being could be expected to go."
A few pale faces in the crowd. Good. That number would grow.
"This poor wretch, this child who trusted you to command her, turned to darkness and opposed you. What is her crime? That she, frail and faltering from the burden you laid on her, could not resist the power of Darth Malak, a Sith Lord? Do you think you could face that tribulation? She faced horrors that would have sent most of you running away screaming, and retired each day knowing she would see more the next. That she saw so much of our desperate enterprise through should be a credit to her. I have fought a thousand battles, and seen not but a handful of soldiers so resilient. But in the end, like all sentients, she was but mortal; she was imperfect. So she faltered. So she turned. So you put her on trail for War Crimes?"
A pause, as Canderous made an exaggerated half turn. One argued with body language as well as words. Let them see his disdain. When his words resume, they returned with the force of thunder, amplified by that moment of silence.
"Just who do you think you are fooling, Senators? She is not the guilty party. You are. You were the leaders, the decision makers. You chose to send her, at the time only a child even by your own laws, into a situation in which she by all rights should not have lived a year. And now you dare to accuse her? I am not here to conduct Padawan Bastila's defense. I am calling you to trial. I am accusing you. You, who sent children to fight and bleed and die. You who abused and betrayed the trust so many, not the least of which Padawan Bastila, put in you. You, who would lay your sins upon a wounded girl to hide them. What is you excuse? Make your defense."
Silence. For an instant the judicial chamber was full of stunned faces, struck dumb by the weight of Canderous's indictment. It was the pivotal moment that would determine the outcome of the trial.
Naturally, the crew of the Ebon Hawk, with several of the Galaxy's most skilled tacticians among its complement, had prepared for this moment.
End Chapter 1
Very Good Story So Far!!!
Can't wait for the next part of the story! Hope to see Canderous get Bastila off of the charges of War Crimes. He made a lot of valid points to the Senate. Keep up the good work on this story. Looking forward to the next chapter.
Good Dialogue!
Very well written!
Loved it.
the ethics of potentially accusing the Jedi component of the Kotor narrative as 'criminals' has always been something that fascinated (and angered) me. i love the way you've addressed this using Canderous and on such a large scale as a Senate hearing. his speech was great and, being Canderous, delivered in more forceful and blunt a way than anyone who i was thinking of using could manage.
i think you may have missed out on a couple of conjunctives here and there, and replaced a few that you meant to use with something else that made less sense-all understandable, your mind was just moving faster than you can type. happens to me all the time!
all in all, i love works that bring up this issue. very well done.
Me with the not being a
Me with the not being a grammar guru... (can you tell i watch too much buffy?) what are conjunctives again? (did you mean conjuctions?)
If you are refering to me sometimes skipping "and", that's deliberate. It's a rhetorical usage. I believe the term for it is "Asyndeton"
well...
actually I read through it again and couldn't find what I was talking about. so, it was probably some residual thought i had from reading someone else. more likely, I'm just dumb.
as far as i'm aware, 'conjunctives' and 'conjunctions' are virtually interchangeable when describing specific words within a family of conjunctions within a written work. i could be wrong, though!
either way, great work.
Love This!
"Canderous stared for a moment, as she took a deep breath, entranced by the warrior woman who had re-emerged."
This is my favorite line, probably because I think this is how Canderous would see dear Bas at the end of the story. I love the honor and nobility you've inbred into our lovely Canderous, which sets him up nicely as the future Mandalore. You have such a clear and simple style which I love. I agree with so much of what was said about how the Republic used Bas as a weapon when she was completely unprepared for the consequences. But in my opinion the Jedi are more accountable for this.
I only have one small nit-pick, and this is just me... You kept switching between Sana and Revan and I got confused. Anyway this is brilliant, I hope to read more.
Yeah, sorry about that. I
Yeah, sorry about that. I wrote this for a forum based comminity originally, and i put in that switching to make clear that i was working wit ha female revan from the start...
Excellent Begining
I'm looking forward to your next piece. don't rush it though. remember, quality over quality.
This was awesome. I must
This was awesome. I must say though, my favorite line was "[She] half wondered what sort of half-baked, insane, do-or-die plan they had come up with this time, that they would send Canderous. She prayed that this scheme didn’t involve explosives."
I hope the next piece has some Bastila perspective- after all, she's sitting there listening to all this.
~Tragic
(Ain't I just?)
You've got my attention.
Impressive speech by Canderous, nicely spoken yet without breaking out of his character. Good work!
Potential, but
This is an interesting piece. The basic idea is fine and it has potential. Certainly, sources like TOTJ implies that it is a very serious business when a Jedi breaks his/her vows. The story itself flows well, but ultimately I don't think that it works, because there are some really serious issues with plausibility, things which doesn't make any sense, and to some extent characterization.
For example, is it really believable that Revan and crew would have any say whatsoever if a trial were to take place? It seems to me that would be a matter between the Jedi and the Republic exclusively, and that the crew of the Ebon Hawk would not be involved except as defendants or witnesses.
One thing which doesn't work at all, is trying to blame the Republic for sending Bastila on the mission unprepared. The Republic had no say in that matter. The decision to send Jedi on missions lie with the Jedi Council. In the game, in one of the banters between Bastila and Carth, it is made clear that the Republic can only petition the Jedi for aid, they cannot demand it (Carth accuses the Jedi of standing by while millions died). For the Star Forge mission itself, Bastila admits on the Leviathan that it was her idea:
We are given the reason for why she does so in her background:
Vandar is actually worried that she may not be strong enough to see it through:
The Jedi are not forcing her, it is by her own choice. While Bastila might have bitten of more than she could chew, neither the Republic nor the Jedi can be faulted for that. Bastila has only herself and her pride to blame for that.
It doesn't really make any sense that Bastila is put on trial, but not, as it appears, Revan, since Revan has far greater crimes to answer for: it was Revan who revived the Sith in the first place and waged war against the Republic, and the Jedi. That is not to say that you need to write a lot about it, but maybe just mention it? Also, if the Republic can find the time and ressouces to put fallen Jedi on trial, then Mandalorian leaders, like Canderous, isn't likely to escape trial either.
Canderous' speech is sort of nice, but I'm not sure it is quite IC for him. More on that later, however. Unless your Revan is trying something sneaky, using a Mandalorian as a counsel is a PR disaster. Especially if the idea is to sway the public opinion. Like the Sith, the Mandalorians waged a war of aggression against the Republic for several years, razed entire worlds, and killed millions. They are not well liked or respected by the people of the Republic, as evidenced by Carth and Bao-Dur's respective reactions to Canderous. People on worlds which have had direct contact with Mandalorians are also hostile, as the reaction of the settlers on Dantooine and city dwellers on Onderon attest. Your Revan might as well be using a Sith as council, since using either a Sith or a Mandalorian is going to hurt Bastila's case, not help it.
To the characterization of Canderous. It is nice that you have Revan teach him rhetoric as an explanation for his speech, but given the sentiments he expresses in game, would he really be able to write or even hold such a speech? Much of that speech, while nice, just is badly OOC for Canderous. For example you have him say this:
There are few sentients who do not become sick when they realize they have killed a fellow sentient. And into this maelstrom, you throw children, ignorant, untrained, unready, innocent.
When Carth speaks of the horrors of war in their banter, Canderous mocks him!
Similarly, having him go on about how the strain broke Bastila is just completely contradictory to what he actually says and does in the game. Canderous (and the Mandalorians apparently) despise the weak, so he is not going to defend or respect someone who isn't strong enough for whatever they are trying to do.
Having him think of Bastila as a warrior isn't quite going to work either. Juhani is arguably a more capable fighter than Bastila, but she never gets a word of respect from Canderous, which is odd if being a fighter really means something to him. He never shows the slightest respect for any Jedi besides Revan. He also mocks Bastila for the ease with which the Vulkars captured her, and considers the Jedi weak for giving people a second chance. What you have at the end is not Canderous, it is just an OC with a borrowed name.
Like I said near the top, this story isn't without potential. But so far it doesn't work for me because it relies heavily on things, like blaming the Republic, which simply makes no sense whatsoever.
hrm.
don't mean to butt in, but I kinda disagree with the premise of some of these points.
For example, is it really believable that Revan and crew would have any say whatsoever if a trial were to take place? It seems to me that would be a matter between the Jedi and the Republic exclusively, and that the crew of the Ebon Hawk would not be involved except as defendants or witnesses.
i think this issue has been addressed quite thoroughly within the narrative. it seemed quite apparent to me that they didn't have a say as to whether a trial would take place as opposed to whether or not Bastila should return to Coruscant to face one. it's outlined both implicitly and explicitly that they would provide her with shelter until the storm blows over; ultimately it was Bastila's choice, and the Ebon Hawk crew were devising a strategy behind the scenes.
One thing which doesn't work at all, is trying to blame the Republic for sending Bastila on the mission unprepared. The Republic had no say in that matter. The decision to send Jedi on missions lie with the Jedi Council...
I'm not sure how this point is a matter of continuity or plausibility as opposed to an opinion of an interpretation of how events unfolded. in any case, Bastila was utilized by the Republic before the Ebon Hawk because of her battle meditation. she was thrust into a war with the Sith as a minor, and was no doubt exploited fully by both the council and the Republic to win said war. both entities are more than culpable. in regard to the Star Forge mission, it may have been Bastila's idea and her choice to go, but just from dialogue she expresses concern over not being accompanied by a Master. i'm pretty sure the wise council doesn't take its cues from Padawans. culpable. it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise, and absurd to suggest the council may simply abdicate responsibility.
It doesn't really make any sense that Bastila is put on trial, but not, as it appears, Revan, since Revan has far greater crimes to answer for...
this is addressed in the text itself:
At least Sana had sense enough to want nothing further to do with Republic, formally at least, and taken Carth with her when she disappeared off of the proverbial sensor net. But Bastila, proud noble-minded Bastila was determined to pay penance for her crimes.
Also, if the Republic can find the time and ressouces to put fallen Jedi on trial, then Mandalorian leaders, like Canderous, isn't likely to escape trial either.
bit of a logical leap. the war's over; the few remaining 'lorians had their gear and weapons destroyed in front of them. besides, who would know what position Canderous held during the war? the whole idea of a trial in the Senate for fallen jedi isn't new; totj was the earliest afaik to bring it up. why would a galactic senate be spending all their time trying criminals? why is this being done by a political body and not a specialist legal body? answer: it's Star Wars.
Canderous' speech is sort of nice, but I'm not sure it is quite IC for him.
pretty sure the purpose (and fun) of fanfic is to explore various possibilities within a given IP. seems like a bit of a non-issue.
Unless your Revan is trying something sneaky, using a Mandalorian as a counsel is a PR disaster. Especially if the idea is to sway the public opinion...
fair-ish point. still, having a former enemy put up a sturdy (and convincing) argument on behalf of a 19 year old female jedi seems like something that would give most people pause. it also seems he's there as a weapon, if need be. at the least, suspension of disbelief is your friend for space opera.
...given the sentiments he expresses in game, would he really be able to write or even hold such a speech? Much of that speech, while nice, just is badly OOC for Canderous...
-There are few sentients who do not become sick when they realize they have killed a fellow sentient. And into this maelstrom, you throw children, ignorant, untrained, unready, innocent.-
When Carth speaks of the horrors of war in their banter, Canderous mocks him!
Canderous also discusses how he feared the first time he entered battle. he also pointedly mentions his feelings about his past to Revan in a LS outcome. also, Candy always seemed pretty well spoken to me. it never occurred to me that Pandalore = dumb.
Having him think of Bastila as a warrior isn't quite going to work either. Juhani is arguably a more capable fighter than Bastila, but she never gets a word of respect...
again, i don't feel it unreasonable that these feelings be explored further in fan fic. they spent a long time together on a ship fighting together and shedding blood together. the thoughts expressed by Candy in this fic really don't seem 'ooc' to me.
sorry for being long winded. i just felt pretty strongly about it.
Reasonable points, but I can't agree
Thanks for your reply. I see that Prisoner24601 has already covered most of it, so I'll try to keep this brief.
The whole debate about culpability of the Jedi council, the Republic, individual Jedi has been discussed in several threads in the forum, so I think it will have to continue there rather than in the review section of this story. For example this thread: http://www.kotorfanmedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2982
I'm fairly sure the issue of whether Bastila was used has been touched upon in the BLC: http://www.kotorfanmedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89
besides, who would know what position Canderous held during the war?
Canderous admits to being a general in his speech in this story.
suspension of disbelief is your friend for space opera.
Yes, but if there are too many things which doesn't make sense then I, for one, can't keep the suspension of disbelief going.
they spent a long time together on a ship fighting together and shedding blood together.
No. They spend time on the same ship. There is no indication they spent any time together. Given that all of their interactions are fairly negative (arguments, insults, lack of trust) it is not a reasonable conclusion that they would be friends by the time the Star Forge is down. Some sort of foundation for that would have to be made by the author. Additionally, the author would also have to put some thought into how that would change the characters.
And now the rebuttal
Thanks for the review.
If I may be permitted, I'd like to say a few words in my defense (ah, irony).
First of all, you seem to be working from the Episode I-III framework for Jedi/Senate relations, where the Jedi are clearly a seperate and self-acountable orginization within the Republic, who help the senate only if asked nicely and they feel like it. This is reasonable, but keep in mind that KotOR is set 4000 years Before the Battle of Yavin. A different Republic/Jedi dynamic is not outside the bounds of possibility.
It is never made clear (neither in KotOR nor in the prequel trilogy) just exactly what the chain of command is for Jedi serving with the Republic military. As presented near the begining of this narrative, I took the view that Jedi permanently assigned to the Fleet were given formal military rank, placing them under the authority of the military structure, and thus the Senate.
Even if you insist on using the prequel trilogy paradigm, you must also consider the political situation. Ideally, the Jedi order is apolitical, but they must live in the same galaxy and face the same reality as everyone else. Public opinion of the Jedi order is, as KotOR clearly shows, not exactly at it's heights. Carth is doubtlessly not alone in feeling that the Jedi abandoned the Republic during the Mandalorian War, and the shock of so many Jedi turning against the Republic in the Sith War didn't help. The way I see it, the Jedi order was basically put in a position where they've lost much of their prestige and almost all of their political influence. They had to jump into a war they didn't anticipate, with public opinion at best neutral if not hostile. In this sort of situation can't see the Senate not exploiting this to gain more control over the Jedi. They have a perfect excuse for doing so: public safety from the thread of dark Jedi.
Furthermore, while the Jedi have traditionally policed their own, you're bonkers if you don't think the public and the news media aren't franctically demanding that the Senate DO SOMETHING. With war and death on this magnitude, the Senate is pretty well justified in making what the Jedi consider a private matter their business, never mind that the public would crucify them if they appeared to be impotent. A Jedi gone bad who killed a few can be quietly dealt with by the council, "treason" on the scale we are talking here is frakkin well a public matter. And as previously noted, the loss of influence and popularity by the Jedi means that there's not a lot the council can do about this. Some people have written stories where the council stonewalled the Republic judiciary, locked out protestors, and suffered terrorism to shelter Revan; I've taken the position that the council lacks the political clout and public support to do such.
Yes, I understand that the Jedi are by tradition and theory outside the law, but in this case, Realpolitik takes precedence.
Secondly, just where are you getting this:
"For example, is it really believable that Revan and crew would have any say whatsoever if a trial were to take place? It seems to me that would be a matter between the Jedi and the Republic exclusively, and that the crew of the Ebon Hawk would not be involved except as defendants or witnesses." ?
I in no way impled that Revan and company had any say. Revan herself is *hiding* "off of the proverbial sensor net" because she has no inclination to put herself under either Senate or Jedi Council authority, and she's taken Carth with her. Bastila, who's feeling guilty, choose to surrender herself to face trial. Carth and Revan do have signifcant contacts and influence in the Republic, and they have no doubt quietly pulled a few strings from the background to make sure the trial goes the way they want it.
Thirdly, Canderous is not in any way blaming the Senate for the Starforge mission, which, by the way, I'm pretty sure Bastila was assigned to over her protests. (She wanted to return to the fleet) Canderous is telling off the Senate for effectively drafting Bastila into the Navy because of her battle meditation. My interpretation of what happend before KotOR has a 16-year old Bastila Shan, still a trainee and not yet a padawan (Padawan rank, judging from the movies, denotes sufficient skill that the apprentice is trusted to go out on missions with her master), being promoted to Padawan before she rightly should have, because her battle meditation is needed out with the fleet. Bastila was not, by the standards of either the Republic or the Jedi, fully trained and ready to take on active missions (I'm assuming that the Repiblic has an age of majority in the 18-20 range for Humans), and yet she was shoved into the middle of a war. That is effectively making a CHILD a soldier, which by Republican law (as I imagine it), is criminaly negligent on the part of both her guardians and the state that drafted her. Canderous emphasizes this by noting that Republican soldiers are little better prepared than children by Mandalorian standards.
Fourth, Canderous heriocally fought against the Sith, and helped destroy the Star Forge. That makes him the hero of the hour, not the boogieman of ten years ago, to the public eye. Furthermore, the vast majority of Humans are violently sick when they kill for the first time. This is as true for Mandalorians as for anyone else. Warfare is brutal, and even the warlike Mandalorains are not immune to shell shock.
Not quite addressing the issues
Firstly, thank you for your reply. You raise some issues, but I can see Prisoner24601 has addessed most of them, so I won't repeat what she said.
First of all, you seem to be working from the Episode I-III framework for Jedi/Senate relations, where the Jedi are clearly a seperate and self-acountable orginization within the Republic, who help the senate only if asked nicely and they feel like it.
I haven't given the Jedi of that Era much thought, and I got the opposite impression of yours. Also you seem to forget the Ruusan Reformation about 1000 BBY (or 3000 years after Kotor). It is mentioned in the Essential Chronology:
The implication from that is that, though the Jedi helped the Republic, they did not answer to the Senate prior to BBY 1000. Besides, there are some clues from the game about this, such as for example from one of the banters between Carth and Bastila:
You can also talk to the Jedi historian on Dantoonie (Dorak):
Another example is Carth and Bastila's exchange in the hideout on Taris:
It seems clear that the Republic can only petition for aid, and the Jedi themselves decide when and in what manner such aid is rendered. Moreover, when the Jedi help the Republic, they seem to be calling the shots.
I'm sorry, but the idea that the Republic can draft or assign Jedi, just isn't going to work given what is in the game.
I took the view that Jedi permanently assigned to the Fleet were given formal military rank, placing them under the authority of the military structure, and thus the Senate.
Sorry, but when Trask talks aout Bastila, he contradicts that idea:
If the Jedi operate outside the Republic Juristiction and doesn't asnwer to the Senate, then all that talk about realpolitik just isn't going to matter in the end. But like the other reply, there is a thread in the forum for discussing that (same thread).
Fourth, Canderous heriocally fought against the Sith, and helped destroy the Star Forge. That makes him the hero of the hour, not the boogieman of ten years ago, to the public eye.
It isn't completely clear when your fic takes place, other than it is after the Star Forge. The Mandalorian Wars themselves ended 4-5 years prior to the game, not 10 years. That is not sufficient time for anyone to forgive or forget the kind of things the Mandalorians did. At a trial, any prosecutor worth their meddle would use that against Canderous.
You might be better of using Carth as counsel, as Prisoner24601 suggest. Carth has none of the disadvantages of Canderous, who is a defeated enemy, and alien to the Republic and its founding principles. Carth, in contrast, is a Republic war hero, decorated more than a dozen times, and it is already established that he likes Bastila. He is acceptable to all parties involved, Bastila, the Jedi, and the Republic. Carth's words will carry a weight to the Republic that Canderous can never hope to match.
I've neither read nor much
I've neither read nor much cared about the essential chronology. The KOTOR games so blatantly contradict the old KOTOR comics (the ones with Ulic Quel Droma and Nomi Sunrider), that i've not a care in the world for continuity. As far as I'm concerned, Bioware's KOTOR series is it's own sandbox. Starwars has seperate gradients of cannon because there really isn't a way to reconcile everything sensibly. As a Fanfic writer, ihave to make judgement calls about just how I portay things. You seem to think I should adhrere more closely to established cannon, but for crying out loud, 1) this is AU fanfic and 2) the established cannon is often self-contradictory, and frequently makes no sense from any socio-political standpoint I'm aware of. I've taken a few liberties with Canderous, but not more so than plenty of other writers have. (See Allronix, Athenaprime, etc.)
Sorry, but it looks like a bunch of excuses
As far as I'm concerned, Bioware's KOTOR series is it's own sandbox.
Even if you restrict yourself to the Kotor game, there are the examples I listed above. The Republic cannot order Jedi around, but only petition them for aid. The Jedi assigned to the Republic (by the Jedi Council apparently, not the Republic), do not hold official rank. That is in the game!
The other basic issues with your story still stand. Eg. If the Jedi are reviled so, then why do the Republic accept that Revan has gone into hiding? Why is there no galaxy-wide hunt for Revan to be found and brought to justice? I think your story is caught by its own logic here (the Republic wants to do something about the Jedi).
As a Fanfic writer, ihave to make judgement calls about just how I portay things. You seem to think I should adhrere more closely to established cannon,
If you can't be bothered with adhering to what is in the source, then why pretend that you're writing fanfiction? If you bend things so far out of shape that the only recognizable part is the character names, then it is just original fiction some borrowed names, nothing more. For what is is worth, I do think your story could work well enough with original characters, though.
1) this is AU fanfic
Then why have you not chosen that category for your fic?
2) the established cannon is often self-contradictory, and frequently makes no sense from any socio-political standpoint I'm aware of.
I'm not sure I understand; on the one hand you seem to be limiting yourself to just the game, and yet you seem to refer to star wars cannon in general? One of the fundamental problems is, that it appears that you are taking the way such things work in the real world, and are trying to superimpose it on a very different "reality". After all, there are no such things as the dark side, the Jedi, the Force, etc. in the real world. How would these things work if there were?
I've taken a few liberties with Canderous, but not more so than plenty of other writers have. (See Allronix, Athenaprime, etc.)
I don't think that discussing other authors work will be appropriate here. However, whatever other authors have done, neither excuse nor exempt you from doing your own work, such as laying a foundation. These are existing characters, with behavior and beliefs established for you by the game. Nothing from the game can support these two ever being friends, much less just getting along. Without some sort of foundation for that, it is just bad characterization (OOC).
The end result is that we really know very little about who Canderous is and what his views are. We have to create his character largely on our own.
That is from your reply to Prisoner24601. I'm going to have to disagree on that one. Just sticking to the first game, it gives you a lot about Canderous. Besides the dialog, which reveals his past and how he feels about it , there is plenty more. For example, there are the banters with Carth and Bastila (both end in disagreement), there is his interaction with Jolee (on Korriban, and Jolee doesn't like him or his ways), and his exchanges with Juhani. You also get how people react to him. For example on Taris where Bastila will not trust him with her life, and Carth isn't much more forthcoming. Besides offering clues to how those two characters view Canderous and Mandalorians, they hint at how the Jedi and the Republic view them too. You also have the reactions of settlers of Dantooine, where Mandalorians are considered barbaric and violent, and Canderous is referred to as "Mandalorian Beast".
In addition to all that, you get plenty of clues for Canderous views, by observing how he reacts to what actions the player takes. For example, on Dantooine with the two feuding families, it is possible to choose to have them fight rather than try to settle the issue peacefully. Fighting it out, is Canderous' choice. Throughout the game Canderous scoffs at the player being nice and helpful and is all for exploiting the weak. In fact, Canderous states that "The role of the weak is to serve the will of the strong; I'm glad you understand that." Contrast that with Bastila's adamant belief that the weak must be helped and protected, not bullied and exploited. By default, those two are never going to get along based on what is in the game.
Can't wait for more!
Jeedai definitely made some valid points, but in the end you shouldn't be discouraged by anything any of us says. I for one loved every single sentence of this story and was cheering Canderous on from the start.
I am going to be all over the next chapter.
"Battle is neither evil nor righteous. It simply is."
I think I'm going to have to agree with Jeedai on this one...
I think this story has a lot of potential, and that you have a lot of promise as an author (stylistically I thought this was well written), but there are some major problems with both the plausibility of this story as well as serious characterization issues here, despite the fact that this fic was technically well written. Since I agree with Jeedai on a lot of points, I'll try to elaborate on just a few things.
I like the idea that the Jedi do not work in a vaccum completely independent of any kind of accountability from the Republic government. The idea of one of the Jedi being held accountable for their fall by an authority outside of their own is really interesting territory to explore. It doesn't make sense to me though that Bastila would be put on trial, but that the Republic wouldn't try to do the same thing to Revan. Yes you toss in a throw away line that Revan has taken off with Carth (which, quite frankly seems really out of character for Carth to just up and abandon the Republic this way - but that's a minor issue here), but how did she get away? Wouldn't they both been taken into custody the minute the Republic Fleet found out who she was? Wouldn't the Republic be freaking out that she's on the loose and be trying to find her? Wouldn't the fact that a former Sith Lord that tried to take over the Republic is loose in the galaxy hurt Bastila's case? Don't get me wrong - I think this scenario could work and that these problems are easily fixable with more foundation, but I do think they need to be addressed more than they are here for this scenario to work.
My major problem with this fic is buying the fact that Canderous is acting as her advocate in this kind of forum. There are a lot of plausibility problems with this including:
1) Why are the Jedi allowing someone like Canderous represent Bastila? Seriously. She's a Jedi, and from all evidence we see, they tend to be insular and take care of their own. Surely, they wouldn't allow someone like Canderous to be her representative and would send one of their own to represent her. If Bastila is still with the order, I simply cannot see the Jedi Masters going along with this plan. And since she's a Jedi, more likely than not she'd follow their wishes. Which kind of leads to my second point.
2) Why is Bastila allowing Canderous to be her advocate? There is no indication that these two characters like or even respect each other within the game. None. In fact, all of the interaction we see is completely hostile. It's not that I don't believe that they couldn't come to some understanding or respect between each other, it's that there is really no foundation laid for that kind of relationship laid anywhere in this story other than a few toss away lines about how he respects her as a warrior. But really, as a reader, to buy this characterization you need to lay way more foundation for this to work.
You also mention that Revan thinks this is a good idea, but still, why would Bastila blindly agree just because Revan likes the idea? And frankly, this seems like the worst idea ever. I realize that Revan is supposed to be a tactical genius but realistically, sending a former Mandalorian General who was once part of an invading force that destroyed entire planets just for honor and glory seems like a recipe for disaster.
3) Why the heck is Canderous agreeing to do this, even assuming that he even likes her? I mean really? The guy is a warrior, not an orator. He would be far more interested in blowing a hole in the wall and helping her escape. I simply have a hard time believing that he'd even be remotely interested in helping her this way. It would be much more plausible for me if his attitude were more like "okay if Princess wants to be a martyr, let her be one." Jumping through Republic legal hoops? I just don't buy it.
In addition, his speeches are horribly out of character. Yes I realize that Revan has given him oration lessons on the fly apparently (another throw away concept that really doesn't work) before selfishly hauling ass to the outer regions with Carth, but still, this doesn't work. Coming from a warrior culture that sends kids into battle, I find it hard to believe that he'd have any problem with the Jedi or the Fleet's decision to send her into battle - especially since she's not some random kid that was picked off the street, but a Jedi who has been raised since a young age for battles like that. To him, I don't think he'd find a difference between what the Jedi did and the practices of his own people.
I'm guessing that this is going to turn into a Canderous/Bastila romance which is why Canderous is the one representing her. However, this fic would make a lot more sense if someone like Carth or Jolee were the one representing her, that I could totally buy. But Canderous acting as her advocate? Nope.
Anyway I think the premise of Bastila on trial is an excellent one, but you're shoehorning the characters into doing things that they wouldn't be doing to serve your plot which makes the characterization fall completely flat. Yes this is fanfiction, and as some of the reviewers have mentioned above, people write fanfiction to explore the various possibilities out there. Which is true but here's the thing: people read fanfiction to see their favorite characters have new adventures. If the characters in fanfiction aren't recognizable as the characters we know and love because the writer has gone too far afield or not laid enough foundation to make their actions plausible, then as fanfiction it doesn't work. And here, what would have worked really well as an original story without the kotor characters (or alternatively with someone like Carth or Jolee representing her instead of Canderous) didn't work for me because even though you've told me that this is Canderous and Bastila, their actions and their dialogue are so out of character that it's like you've got two original characters here that happen to share their names.
1) What makes you think the
1) What makes you think the Jedi have any choice in this matter? See above reply to Jeedai: Realpolitik.
2) Again, i've adressed this before. Keep in mind that the Mandalorian wars are over. The Madalorians are, in the public eye, a beaten people out on the fringe. The Sith are the boogeymen of the day.
3) You're opinion is perfectly valid. I couldn't disagree more. Why? because this is a videogame character who we know about only through the barebones of a limited pool of dialog... Keep in mind this is a KOTOR 1 fic that has already directly contradictied KOTOR 2, so i'm working off an even smaller smaple with which to judge Canderous's character. The end result is that we really know very little about who Canderous is and what his views are. We have to create his character largely on our own. I'm not the only one to show a side to Canderous that isnt all about "kill, kill, megadeath!", and frankly, given that he seems to be starting to rethink his life at the LS end of KOTOR we are left with a massive degree of open space to explore the possibilities of his character. I deplore Blatant OOC-ness, but in this case, we don't have enough C to start with, and we're really not very OO as far as I can see.
This fic, in the end, is me having fun with rhetoric and politics. I don't require you to like it. But when you scream OOC, i'm a little miffed. I've explored the characetrs beyond the little we see of them in the game, but plenty others here have done likewise, and been "OOC" to much the same extent. *points at Allronix, Athenaprime, and many others*
Just to clear up a few
Just to clear up a few points because I think there is some confusion about what I was saying:
1) What makes you think the Jedi have any choice in this matter? See above reply to Jeedai: Realpolitik.
Jeedai and I are making different points. His point is that the it's unrealistic for a Jedi to be put on trial like this and that he disagrees with idea that Bastila was forced by the military to take part in the war. I said, I could totally buy the concept of a Jedi going on public trial (and actually loved the concept) it if more foundation were laid by you about what's going on with Revan and how Revan running loose effects Bastila's chances at her trial and how the Order itself is perceived.
My point about the Jedi having a say is in not in having the trial itself, but in the choice of Canderous as Bastila's advocate. Since she's one of their members, why wouldn't they have a say in who is her legal representation at her trial? Why wouldn't she listen to them? And why the heck would anyone, including Revan, choose Canderous when there are much more logical people out there to represent her like Carth or Jolee or any member of the Jedi Council? It seems that your answer to this is that it's more realistic this way in the political scheme of things - but I just don't see how it's even remotely logical or realistic.
This is not necessarily a huge hurdle to overcome. All it takes is some foundation laying on your part to explain how exactly this situation exists other than relying on the completely unrealistic reason of "Hey Revan is a tactical genius which makes this an awesome plan that everyone instantly goes along with."
2) Again, i've adressed this before. Keep in mind that the Mandalorian wars are over. The Madalorians are, in the public eye, a beaten people out on the fringe. The Sith are the boogeymen of the day.
And again, they bombed entire planets and caused the Jedi to go war in the first place merely five years prior (if this is taking place soon after the Star Forge). It would be like having someone who was instrumental in the attack on Pearl Harbor defend a war criminal in the Korean war. Would people in America really be accepting of that, or even listen to what they had to say? I seriously doubt it.
Would some people see the sith as the worse threat or not care about what the Mandalorians have done? Maybe. But we know from at least three canon characters in the game (Carth, Juhani and Bao-Dur) that there are definitely many people out there that still hate the Mandalorians.
3) You're opinion is perfectly valid. I couldn't disagree more. Why? because this is a videogame character who we know about only through the barebones of a limited pool of dialog... Keep in mind this is a KOTOR 1 fic that has already directly contradictied KOTOR 2, so i'm working off an even smaller smaple with which to judge Canderous's character.
I agree that there is a limited amount of information about characters (although I don't think it's as limited as you're claiming) and I'm all for exploring things about them or even adding stuff that's not in the game that are natural extensions of what we do see which is what both Allronix and Athenaprime have done in their stories. They've also taken chapters to lay the foundations for what they do which is why their stories work.
Of course there is more to Canderous than "kill, kill, megadeath!" Given the fact that I've extensively co-written him in a romance, I'm the last person to argue with you about that. But if you're going to take the character who would probably shoot first and ask questions later and in the very first chapter turn him into 1) a super articulate lawyer, 2) making speeches that hold beliefs which directly contradict the things that we do know about him from the game, 3) about people he could give a crap about, I requre a lot more explanation about he got to this point than "Revan taught him how to do this, and thought it was an awesome idea, so everyone went along with it." That's a huge stretch that's out of character given the really flimsy explanation that we get for his actions.
So I guess my points can be boiled down to this. You've started building the frame of this really interesting house, but it seems that you've forgotten to pour the foundation for it - which makes the whole idea collapse.
Anyway, I don't expect you to agree with me (obviously others who like your story certainly don't - and that's entirely fine). I also don't expect you to suddenly up and rewrite your story because of what I say. I certainly don't want to discourage you from writing more. I left my review to give you food for thought for the next time you write a story and you are, of course, free to take or leave anything that I say as useful or not useful.
To be posted 14 Mar 2008 on
To be posted 14 Mar 2008 on StarwarsKnights under The Critic returns and Lucasforums under the Critic’s Two Cents.
Because I find that a lot of the writing here is already what I would define as professional standard, I will tag those I liked as pick of the week. Check at StarwarsKnights for the best of the best.
After KOTOR: The Senate holds a War Crimes Trial, opening statement by the Defense.
I agreed that this should have been a military or Jedi decision. But being a student of history, I know the way it should be is not always the way it is. Before WWII, War crimes were internal matters. Your general is accused of a crime and a court of inquiry is convened, the accuser puts forward his evidence, the court deliberates, and if there is enough to try, they hold a court martial.
Nurnberg changed that. Suddenly War Crimes belonged not to those who had direct legal jurisdiction, but to the victors. Having read several books on the trials, I can tell you that it was a farce from the word go. The US had already approached the other Allies to convene those trials even though as RobertJackson (A Supreme Court Justice and Prosecutor for the US) admitted, there was no precedent for such trials. The charges except for two were specious; A General, whose job it is to plan for a war and if it begins fight it to the best of his ability is a criminal if the enemy say it’s wrong?
Several times during those trials, the defense (At least of the military men) pointed out that the allies had done exactly the same thing and were admonished by both British and American judges at different times that ‘we are not on trial, you are‘.
The attitude of direct responsibility for officers and men below field rank (Major) was harped on, and the worst of that was that the only country that had such a view; that illegal orders need not be obeyed before 1944 were the defendants.
This is not a proper trial, it is a politically driven ploy. They can’t try the ones they want, so they settle for what they can catch. The defense merely has to prove that it is all cheep politics and it falls apart.
Pick of the Week.
The Above, and Then Some
I really enjoyed the cadence of your sentences, and especially Canderou’s spoken speeches. Technically, well-written on a sentence to sentence stylistic level. The point he makes about the Jedi sending a padawan who is not battle prepared into a life of death situation probably resonates with many people—it is indeed cruel and poorly thought out. The idea of a Mandalorian calling the prosecutors to justice for this is certainly an interesting, ironic idea. On the level of poetic justice, he would certainly be one of the most qualified members of the crew to make this statement.
However, there were a few overall structural choices I think could use more work, if not in a revision here, then just as something to consider developing in the continuations. For me, Canderous’s p.o.v. in "Honor" and "Duty" wasn’t fully realized in the actual word choices of the descriptive language, supposedly from his point of view, although it is present in some of the internal thoughts, but not internal diction. This divide in the choice of spoken diction and internal thought could have been a great way of showing how far Canderous as a character and a speaker has come in the backstory your fic, but I wasn’t convinced that that was authorial intention. Mostly because the transitions between his internal thoughts and his spoken words did not flow well for me. Maybe it’s just the training Revan gave him helping him along that makes that difference evident. But just as thought influences language, how can changing language not influence thought? In short, I hope to see more of how Canderous has changed in the years after the Wars placed on the page, again, if not in a revision, then int he future chapters of this story.
The second question I have is regarding the logistics of court trial. I’m unfamiliar with what, if any, standards are put down for the SW universe, so I’m just assuming based off what I know of the real-world procedures and what seems logical to me as a reader. Firstly, I wondered at what part of the trial does the main part of this story begin? Are these the opening statements? Second, why is Canderous and Revan choosing to use the opening of a trial to place a request for a different trial? What kind of legal loopholes would allow that kind of disruption? What is the system in place—how do you imagine the court trial procedures? Could you show more of that structure in the story?
I ask this because the last three paragraphs appear to be working at odds with the story’s setup. Canderous says,"You, who would lay your sins upon a wounded girl to hide them. What is you excuse? Make your defense," and this is followed by the narrator telling the reader that ”For an instant the judicial chamber was full of stunned faces, struck dumb by the weight of Canderous's indictment. It was the pivotal moment that would determine the outcome of the trial.” The statements seem to suggest that the trial has already begun, but without any kind of structured outline of what the trial was about and what the process of legal persecution would be. I am guessing that part of the tension and mystery of the plot is about why Bastila is on trial—although we get reference of treason, the actual language of the accusation is not clearly presented. Consequently, the closing words make Canderous’s earlier speeches seem out of place. I think any judge with a sense of self-preservation would call that trial to a recess right there, because it doesn’t make legal sense to prosecute the decision-makers in a trial about a separate case. Why do they let the tension of Canderous’s statement hang in the air for so long? These logistical choices challenge my suspension of disbelief in the story, and I worry about the characterization of the court as two dimensional, unthinking plot devices for Canderous’s glory. Lines such as “A pause to let the accusation set in. The accusers had become the accused, the hunters the hunted,” are especially worrisome, because it dismisses the intellgience and resistence of the now-accused council, and make the story too easy. I want to see Canderous have to fight. I want to see the council turn hard faces to this Mandalorian former war enemy now accusing them of doing wrong. I want to know who “They” are in paragraph two of “Duty.” I am totally interested in seeing Canderous navigate the treacherous waters and nuances of a all out verbal war.
In short, although the twist at the end is obviously supposed to surprise it isn’t shocking, but jarring instead. It comes across as a gimmick, and though the idea is clever, the execution needs more work, and I think the scene in "Duty" has too much potential to just stop where you left that.
Cheers and keep on writing!
Free
Stop drinking the detergent, Caboose!
EH, Okay, I confess, I just
EH, Okay, I confess, I just skimmed the commentary that is longer than your story. But, geez. I was going to only say I had an objection to Bastila being only 19 at the end of the Star Forge (and that may be more my own personal issue, as well as a little ick factor if you are planning on romancing them...) -- but since her helpless youth is the basis of Canderous's argument... it can stand okay. I am of the belief that anything can stand okay as long as it's well-written, interesting and believable. I have no issues with Canderous the statesmen... sure, if you're not careful he could turn into a Sue, but you are smart enough to be careful.
I am also assuming there's a twist in chapter two, even if it's just Bastila ruining this carefully-laid plan by screaming "wtf I r not helpless you!" because otherwise there wouldn't be much of a story, would there?
One thing, I found some of the rhetoric kinda dry. THen again, that's personal preference. I also wondered if some of it was appropriated from other sources. Which isn't bad, I've been known to riff on literary stuff myself... it just came across a little like Socrates. Or, uh, something. I really didn't pay enough attention in those humanities classes.
Again that is not bad, but now I want to see how the other shoe falls in chapter two...
Very Good
As I just said above, "Very good", it had a deep sense of honour and noblilty that Canderous demonstrated with just the right tinge of noble outrage and dramatic reasoning. On the whole, a very expertly done piece of writing.
Keep on!!
This story happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. But it is also happening right now as you read these words.
Comments can sometimes help or hinder and I hope these have not caused you to reconsider writing this story. Whether I agree or disagree, I will defend to the death your right to WRITE!!!!!!! If Canderous did not sound like himself, maybe it was because he had been prompted by Revan. I will not go into all the details or arguments for and against. I WILL tell you I enjoyed this story and will read more.